Money, Money, Money! (No, I'm not ABBA)*
A quick birthday update: Phew. The dinner was a success and I was able to pull off a birthday present in 6 hours flat! Kyle recommended that I get my husband MacAddict Magazine since Matt loves to remind me every day how great his MAC is and what a sad attempt my computer is at "being a real computer." Good call Kyle. THANKS. I also wanted to share another great magazine that I decided to get Matt. It's called Mental Floss. (Jo, this could be good for your son-in-law) It is all about developing random knowledge. Their tag: "Feed your right brain, nurture your left brain, and induldge your scatter brain." I love the concept and look forward to reading it monthly. Check it out: www.mentalfloss.com/magazine
Okay, now on to today's blog entry. The question of ethics and reviews tends to creep up daily. I read nearly one article a day on consumer generated content and, in my opinion, questionable pay models. I stumbled upon this article nearly a month ago and it was recently reforwarded to me by Lon, one of our board members and investors. Thanks Lon-- you always forward really relevant reads. It was especially timely given our discussion on the blog last week. Here is a snippet from the article. Yet again, this struck a deep cord with me.
"Ron DesGroseilliers has recommended more than 260 products on his two blogs--everything from travel sites and TV shows to laminate floors and lingerie. The 47-year-old electronics engineer isn't a know-it-all with a short attention span. He's one of a growing legion of bloggers who get paid to write about products and services.... sites [are] offering an easy way for bloggers to earn bucks and for marketers to build buzz. As traditional forms of advertising lose effectiveness, word-of-mouth services hope to fill the gap. But critics say such sites are "polluting" the blogosphere, sapping credibility from a medium where it's already in short supply. [On selected sites] advertisers place "opportunities" listing what they want to promote and what they'll pay. Bloggers typically receive $5 to $10 per post, as long as the write-up meets the advertiser's requirements, which often include a positive spin. "People can say bad things about a product all day long," says PayPerPost chief executive officer Ted Murphy. "But why the heck should an advertiser pay them to do it?"
This isn't meant to be a personal attack, but come on.... You are killing me! First, shame on the manufacturers for feeding "fake" reviews, but more importantly, shame on the writers. Is your credibility worth $5-$10? How can people trust your recommendations when they know you are being paid to write with a positive spin? (and don't necessarily reveal your affiliation) Am I missing something? I would love to hear from one of these bloggers! Help me understand your motivations.
Second, I generally have a belief that there is more genuine sharing and insightful comments when a person is NOT getting paid for their reviews. This leads to an interesting debate about whether or not sites should pay people to share their personal experiences and reviews. There are a few that pay (albeit, complex models), and many that don't. Some sites pay per post. Other sites pay based on page views (which people can easily game), others pay fixed stipends, and many like Yelp and Trip Advisor pay nothing.
My initial reaction is that a site should NOT pay. Don't hate me! I personally think that you should focus on building a great community and in exchange, you give people something that is incredibly valuable- friends and advice they can trust. You also give them the tools to get their opinions out there and visible to a lot of eyeballs. You make it fun and easy. You allow them to invest in themselves and their personal brand. You get them exposure. Then, you celebrate them and show people what a great leader they are in your community! With that being said, there will always be clear and recognizable leaders that you should pay for their time and efforts to help build your community. These are the people that keep your community alive and boiling. This takes time and effort and their contributions are priceless to any community.
That opens the door to a few questions for any contributor. (1.) Am I crazy? Should sites pay all contributors? (2.) Why do people contribute to sites like Trip Advisor when there is no pay model? I would love your insights and tell me how far I am on the crazy scale? (1-10 please; 10 being craziest)
*The ABBA song "Money, Money, Money" was recorded in 1976 by the Swedish quartet and released in November that year, with "Crazy World" as the B-side of the single. It can be found on their album Arrival. To this day, "Money, Money, Money" remains one of ABBA's best-loved tunes.
13 comments:
First off, I agree with Matt. I've been using Macs since 1989, and bought my first Mac for my home after my son was born. He'll turn 14 on Tax Day. That old one is currently in my daughter's bedroom for purely play only, then I have an iMac as a backup, a newer iMac as a desktop, and then my iBook that I use all the time. Don't forget, us Mac users don't need toworry about viruses! And my God, would I love an iPhone!
As far as reviews, I think at some point you can judge on these other factors, such as pay or no pay, but it always comes down to a writer's integrity. My reviews started where I wasn't getting paid, and fed something internally, of a desire to help others, and a desire to share a piece of myself.
And at some point, I became one of the only ones there that just liked to write reviews, where others were waiting for their big break, getting an agent for their book, getting a newspaper position, etc. I felt a little like Alex Reiger on Taxi. He didn't want to be a boxer or actor. He just wanted to be a taxi driver.
Yet, I think I've built up a trust with some people that have been reading my reality show reviews for these past 2-1/2 years. I think they now see they can trust my opinion, and that's why they seek out my reviews.
And I think eventually that's what will come of all this. Looking at viewpoints.com, it will be a new service, and people will begin to ask if they can trust our opinion or not. But over time, they'll learn of our integrity, as that we'll come out in our writing.
I don't think you're crazy. And I love Macs as well, although I'm purely a Mac hobbyist nowadays. My first non-waitressing, non-pizza-delivering job was in a Mac lab, so I have a special fondness for the computer that got me out of schlepping around food for a living.
Now, on to your other question:
"Should sites pay all contributors? It's a very good one at that.
I agree that in an ideal world, people would freely share their information and reviews with others, so that we could all benefit. And in a select few (and I do mean few) ways, this model works very well. Take the Open Source programming community, for instance. However, even there you'll find that everyone gets a "payout" of sorts, something that's tangible and very useful every single time, other people's software contributions. And it's a much more tightly knit community than this "Wide Wide World of Web" (to quote 'My Name is Earl') that so many more people are a part of.
I like to write, but writing true quality reviews often requires a lot of research, writing, editing, re-editing, and finally posting. If my life is incredibly busy, that usually won't happen without any incentive at all. I took three months off from work when we moved (and it about drove me crazy) and during that time I wrote reviews just to have something to do. I think I cranked out a few hundred in that short time period. But that's not the norm for me.
I wouldn't say that sites should pay for "all" reviews, but if you identify quality reviewers, it's a good incentive to keep them around, and to encourage others to try to attain that status by working to make high quality reviews as well.
Having said that, when I do get the spare time, I write reviews at places like Trip Advisor because other people's reviews have helped me tremendously. It's my way of giving back there.
Anyway, at this point I'm rambling and I'm not terribly sure I've gotten 100% of my intended point across, but I gave it a shot. It's an interesting question, and I think that ViewPoints is the only site that I know of that has made a huge effort to try to determine what motivates good writers to contribute great reviews.
First, my experience with Macs is a little less positive. I used Macs regularly at my previous job, and they were quirky and crashed more often than the Intel-based PCs. And Macs see fewer viruses because there are far fewer Macs than PCs. If someone wanted to infect Macs, the computers are capable of being infected.
Well, enough that he said/she said computer stuff!
The problem with writing for money is not the money itself, it is where the money comes from. This is the same issue faced by newspapers and magazines -- as long as there is separation between the advertising and editorial departments, there should be no problem. I've written more than 300 detailed and lengthy reviews on one site, and no one has ever told me what to write or what sort of spin to use. I earn about $100 per month for my reviews there and pride when I write review that is a particularly good earner. Since the amount of money a review earns is somehow based on people reading and benefiting from the review, good earnings mean that I'm helping consumers. Negative reviews earn just as well -- one of my best-earning reviews is quite negative.
So, it's not about the money. It's about where the money comes from and what is expected of it in return.
Back to the Macs for one moment. Regardless of why there is no Mac viruses, the point is we still don't have to worry about it. And I've had less than a handful of crashes in eighteen years.
Now, on to a couple of ideas. First, I think we're creating the baseline of a differing views on a prdocut. Macs. Maybe this could be part of a larger article, with those of us that have experiences, good and bad, with Macs as a featured article/review on viewpoints.com
Also, perhaps this topic of writing reviews and what possible motivation exists, needs to be addressed on viewpoints.com. Perhaps people will come to the site with many these things we've addressed here, but seeing them as big question marks in their mind.
If we address how our site and writeres feel about this issue, maybe it will help create integrity for the site and its purpose. Also, maybe that's something we need to address on our bio pages, why we personally write reviews.
A valid view, and I must say it makes lots of sense. On other hand, as they say, "Time Is Money". I have enjoyed giving away my time/money for quite a while now, doing reviews for kicks and giggles. Although, if there were a way to create income through doing something I enjoy, like reviews. That would seem to be the best of both worls :)
P.S. I love my Mac! :)
I will use whatever computer is put in front of me. Mac, PC, abacus, whatever.
As for the pay/no pay dilemma, I guess I see things a bit differently. The Internet has vastly depressed wages for those of us who stupidly chose writing as a profession and not as an avocation. I say stupidly, because I could just as easily have gone to law school and been rich by now.
Instead, I chose journalism, which I knew to be a low-paying occupation, but which had "other benefits" namely that I'd be making a small difference in this world. My first job out of grad school in '91 paid $20,000. So much for that Ivy League degree, eh? But I had faith that I 'd work my way up the ladder and wind up in a good place.
Where is that good place? I decided it was my living room. But I'm now working piecemeal, giving away my talent, energy, experience and knowledge for far, far less than I earned as a newbie 15 years ago.
But I'm now competing against everybody and his cousin who has a laptop and an opinion. That may fulfill James Madison's ideal of robust debate, with no barriers to entry in the marketplace of ideas. But it sucks if you're trying to put food on the table.
So I guess I disagree with the idea of not paying people for their hard work. Newspapers and magazines pay for content, and I have faith that when non-porn sites finally figure out that whole revenue stream thing, money will trickle down to us "content providers" on the bottom rung.
But I'm sending my kids to law school. You betcha.
Anne... thanks for sharing your perspective! Your views are well taken, and more importantly, fun to read. That Ivy League education was well worth it!
First of all thanks for the lead for Rob.
Now to computers. I have a Dell; hubby has an IBM and one of my kids has a Mac so we're covered on the stockmarket:)
I feel very much like Anne does. By the way, Anne, it is amazing how life changes. My Ivy League daughter, radical feminist, enrolled in a PhD. program in political sociology married a venture capitalist. Who knows when that dissertation will be written. She's too busy making him smoothies and going to personal trainers and getting facials. Ok so..
The question:
Should sites pay all contributors?
I probably babbled a bit because it is a complex one. I think those who write for $0 do so because they want to share their experience. These are usually two to four sentences and oftentimes I am able to read them:) Many sites say "no reviews have been written" or "please write a review" so a person might just jot down a few thoughts.
In my opinion if we are to go beyond that model (and I think we should...Though not to the extent where we must be so savvy about our product that we are too intimidated to write. For example I want to tell the world about my iPod but I just want to say what I like about it and what I don't like; a bit about it and thumbs up or down. I love that model and think it will work.) See I'm still babbling -don't worry I won't review anything in this manner - people have to get something. That something doesn't have to be much. Jolie I've shared with you but I'll share with other that I wrote for another site that paid me $25 per article. I got no feedback; there was no community and I dreaded writing those articles (Not product reviews).
So people will write for very little but I think for their own sense of self respect, for their own sense of self worth it takes more than just a pat on the back or "good job" (Though those are important as well.) to not just get and keep people but to get people to write something in correct English having used spell check. Do I dare hit publish? jo
I'll add this ... I've written before for great money, and left it voluntarily, because I refused to give up my integrity for the cash.
I was to have a regular column reviewing movies and TV, and its affect on kids, in a new print magazine, and after just one issue, the editor became very demanding. I had asked if along with my column that month, if they would also like an article on women's self defense. At that moment, I was currently training for my black belt.
It was accepted, and then sat on for five months. A few weeks before the deadline of the next issue,I was asked if the martial arts school I belonged to wanted to place an ad on the page with my article. I decided not to ask the school for a couple of reasons. A, I was extremely busy as I was testing for my black belt the following week, and my plate was full between training, writing, and being a parent, and I knew I would be the one designing the ad. B, the school as a whole was busy, because not only the black belts, but the color belts as well were all testing throughout that week, and there was a banquet following all the testing. It simply wasn't a good time. But I said I'm sure they would do something in a later issue.
Suddenly, my article was no longer a good one, the one they had sat on for five months. She assured me it would have to be totally rewritten in editing. I asked for specifics, but she couldn't provide me with any. I smelled something very fishy, and said while I understand things must be edited, I needed to see the article before it was published since it was being totally redone, and it included sensitive information. I didn't want to leave myself or my school open to any liabilities, and worried they would change information that could lead to a safety issue. Self defense isn't something you can just write for sensationalism, and it was clear that was what she was after.
The following week, I wrote my column, a movie review, and since I hadn't heard anything, I asked again if I could please see the edit of the self defense article. She wrote back and just advised me to reread the original terms of the contract. Huh? After several emails back and forth, we finally got to the real issue, that she said she owned my article now, and could edit it as she pleased. I wrote back that while I understood completely, it was such a sensitive issue, and I just wanted to make sure the original ideas were being retained. I had by this time received my black belt, and was afraid my position as a new instructor would be compromised. I told her if there was an issue, she could contact my two instructors. If it wasn't going to be able to be worked out, I asked to have my article back. She first wrote back and again said she owned the article, and could do what they wanted, then wrote back minutes later and said I could have it back, and she would no longer be requiring my services.
There was no way I was going to lose my integrity over this article for the $75. I have some regular freelance writing jobs that pay a little, and I have my main one that pays me nothing. Before this I freelanced in graphic design, and before that, I was a computer typsetter/graphic designer full time for a printer. Yet, in all these situations, my favorite "boss" has been the one that I work for free for, as she treats me with much more respect. It goes so far beyond the cash for me.
Thanks, Jolie. I really am enthusiastic about Viewpoints; I don't know if you could tell that from my rant. Sorry.
The things that sound most promising to me as a writer:
1. "The Wall" between advertising and editorial;
2. People will get to know more about me; my interests, obsessions, biases, quirks, etc.;
3. Feeling encouraged to show leadership rather than the standard CYA;
4. The thrill (seriously) of getting in on the ground floor;
5. Doing my part to help raise the bar for Internet content and change people's expectations for a product review site;
6. Management's refreshing lack of cynicism in the worthy pursuit of a viable business model.
Okay, gotta go fix dinner. Thanks again for a thoughtful forum.
I am a writer and have written since I could hold a pen. I have written for money for my whole life. Having said that, as far as reviews go, I believe some sort of incentive is imperative for QUALITY reviews. Many people write a sentence or two (often a rant) and call that a review.
Those people should not be paid, in my opinion.
But those who write quality, informational reviews should have an incentive to do so here rather than somewhere else. There are a lot of review sites - some paid, some not - and in my opinion, the best writers will go where there is some incentive. They work hard and put more than a few minutes into their reviews. They don't want a dollar per word but it's nice to have something as an incentive.
I believe that anyone paid by an advertiser is a shill. That's unethical no matter how a person is "paid" whether it is money or products.
But those who are paid by an independent review site will give quality, unbiased opinions.
By pay, I don't mean a lot. I just mean something to show they are valued and to give them a reason to return and be a regular contributor rather than a one review wonder.
Quality related incentives (perhaps based on how many people read the review or clicked an ad or whatever) should be rewarded in some small way as a thank you for the person's time and information.
As for the one, two, and three lines blurbs, I don't think anyone would expect to be paid for such short survey type reviews.
By the way, Hi. I'm Patty. And wordy. lol.
Okay, I am brand spanking new here and I ran into this post. About Macs vs. PCs? I can go either way. Now about paying for reviews.
Of course high quality reviews should be paid for. They represent the "inventory" that Viewpoints is selling advertisers. Unless Viewpoints intends to give away its value to advertisers without compensation why would reviewers give away their content?
I am a writer at that other very large site that offers Epinions (oops) and I am paid for the effort I put into my reviews. I expect to be. I didn't submit my first review for the money, but I doubt I would continue to submit very well thought out reviews if I weren't.
I don't think that a review site that featured only the reviews of writers who would write for no compensation would offer advertisers the views of a representative body of reviewers (representative of their potential customers). Afterall, their customers cannot be counted on to be purely altruistic.
That being said, it's nice to be here.
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